A CONVERSATION WITH SETA MELKONIAN

 

Seta Melkonian is the President of the Monte Melkonian Benevolent Union. Born in Ainjar, Lebanon in 1963 to a family of six sisters, Seta Melkonian met her future husband, former ASALA (Armenian Secret Army for the Liberation of Armenia) member and Karabagh commander, Monte Melkonian, at the age of fifteen.  

 

In 1991, Monte and Seta Melkonian were married at the Monastery of Geghard in Armenia, and after his death in Karabagh in 1993, Seta Melkonian officially established the Monte Melkonian Fund to assist the families of soldiers killed or wounded in battle. The Fund employs two staff, with other staff working as volunteers, including the President and Director.

 

She moved to Yerevan in 1981 to start graduate studies in Armenian literature and has remained in Armenia ever since, apart from short stays in the United States and Lebanon, and two years spent with Monte Melkonian on the run from Interpol, the Turkish Secret Services, and ASALA in Western and Eastern Europe.  

 

This interview was conducted in Yerevan, Republic of Armenia, on 4 March 2000.

 

ONNIK JAMES KRIKORIAN: You have been in Armenia for a long time now, and I would imagine that you have seen many changes. How would you compare Armenia to when you first arrived?

SETA MELKONIAN: It is a very different country, and I do not recognize the Yerevan I knew. There used to be a very interesting atmosphere, and it was a very interesting place. We always knew where to go to meet the intelligentsia, and we could always make friends very easily, but now my friends from University are no longer here. I arrived from outside Armenia, so maybe it was easier for me to see than for the locals, but there used to be a spirit here.  

Lives were more human, even if people never realized where everything that was provided was coming from. Now, people become frustrated and have high expectations of the government. Even when I speak to those friends that are still here, they complain, “What kind of government is this? They do not pay artists this, or they do not do that…” However, they do not realize that this does not happen anywhere else.

During the Soviet years, everything was free. Now the situation has changed, and people are hungry and unable to provide for their children. Things that they were once able to buy with kopeks they cannot even dream of getting now. The whole situation has changed. 

 

OJK: Another thing that does not exist now is the social framework from the Soviet years. As a result, the Monte Melkonian Fund was set up in 1994. What sort of activities has it been involved in?

SM: The actual Fund started in 1994, but started very naturally from a personal initiative on New Year’s Eve in 1992. Monte and I wanted to spend the time together as it was also the anniversary of when we first met in 1978. However, I thought that it was ridiculous that he should travel all the way to Yerevan, and so I decided to travel to Karabagh instead. As I prepared for the journey, I also thought of doing something for the children. They were in the middle of a war in 1992, so I talked to a friend who had a national dance school in Massis village, and they agreed to accompany me. I telephoned the Karabagh Committee to ask for help with a bus, and they said that they would. I called Samvel Babayan in Stepanakert and asked for assistance with the diesel, and he agreed.

I was living in a dormitory at that time, and I asked the other people staying there for presents to take to the children. I rang my sister in Ainjar and asked if she could help with balloons and other presents, and at the last minute while we were waiting in the bus, a person came running to deliver the package. My sister had sent five hundred balloons, chocolates, erasers, and pencils. We ended up with 1600 presents, a dance group and a psychologist. Monte loved that whole thing, and we held concerts in twelve villages. We also went to the trenches to dance with the soldiers, and at one point, the Azeris contacted us on the radio asking what was going on because we had dhol and zoorna playing from the front line.

The second time included doctors from Yerevan who wanted to help in Stepanakert, some journalists, and a few friends. I went to schools in Yerevan to ask the children and teachers to make baskets, and I made some at the dormitory. Friends donated eggs, friends in Switzerland and Yerevan donated chocolate, and 1200 kids in Karabagh received these baskets for Easter. Of course, I put the Ten Commandments in each Easter basket so that the children could learn something, and I asked Monte for his permission to borrow some of his soldiers that were also musicians. Monte agreed, and we visited villages with duduk, zoorna, clarinet and some singers.

Monte really liked this because even if there was war and bombing, it gave the people something different. I remember that when we held our first mass, Archbishop Barkev Martirosian sent a priest to the Martuni Concert Hall. When I went to kiss the bible, the other villagers did not. They thought that they were not allowed because they had never seen such an event before. Some of the children even wanted to applaud because they thought it was a concert. They needed education, and Monte encouraged me tremendously. It was easy to continue these activities through the Monte Melkonian Fund.

After his death, and because Monte did not like lamenting, every year on 12 June We try to give the day a special meaning, and because Monte’s friend General Haroyan had built the Monte Melkonian spring, we decided to organize group christenings and baptisms. Every year on the anniversary of Monte’s death, we hold group baptisms at the pool, although last year was the first time when we didn’t.

Things are changing, but there used to be a demand, and so we fulfilled it. We also wanted to help the military hospital and the cultural center in Martuni, but we also started to undertake activities in Hadrut, Mardakert and other regions, including assistance to the kindergartens, which were in a very bad situation immediately after the war. Friends from France and the United Kingdom sent us toys and we renovated a kindergarten in Stepanakert. Afterwards, we began to concentrate on the families of martyred soldiers, widows, and anyone else that needed assistance. We worked primarily in Nagorno Karabagh for a few years, but then the situation changed in Armenia, and we started to cooperate with local and international NGOs in Armenia, such as the Norwegian Refugee Council.

We discovered a dormitory where 98 elderly refugees were living, although now there are 93 still in a very desperate situation. Because of this, we are continuing to visit them every few months to distribute food and clothing thanks to in-kind assistance from the Diaspora. We also worked in the Vardenis mental hospital, and one of our very active board members, Edik Baghdasarian, is making a documentary film about the patients. We even held some exhibitions to raise funds for the hospital, and sold some of the dolls made by one of the inmates. Of course, we are also providing help to individuals. However, we do not usually work with cash because that is a very sensitive issue. What we do instead is to assess a beneficiary’s needs, and then buy whatever is necessary ourselves. That way, we hold the receipts and can show those funding our activities what we are doing with the money that they provide. The reputation of our organization is very important to us.

We also participated in a project to grow wheat in Lachin, and we purchased a few cows for Nagorno Karabagh so that vulnerable families could have milk, cheese and the necessary nutrition for their children. In Yerevan however, the situation has become a little harder for us now. Those families that were not in trouble before are now becoming desperate and have asked for our help.

 

OJK: It is interesting to hear your opinion on what the social needs of Armenia are. I say this because everyone in the Diaspora thinks that the average income of $30-35 a month is much higher because people are sending money from abroad. People do send money from abroad, and many that left for Russia were initially sending money back home. However, now the Russian economy is failing, a lot of that money has stopped, and as a result, no one is sure of the actual situation in Armenia. How would you describe it?

SM: The social situation in Armenia is both paradoxical and difficult, and it is a riddle even for me. Sometimes I do not understand how people manage. I know that when we were working it was hard to identify whom should we help. We do not give cash money because we do not know what recipients will do with it, but on the other hand, we do not want to make mistakes. That is one of the hardest tasks in a NGO – to identify the right beneficiaries. What we were doing at the beginning was to check what the demands were and to act accordingly. We know that the pensioners and children, and especially physically and mentally handicapped children, are in the worst situation, but sometimes a martyred soldier’s family is in a much better situation than a family that has a father. What do you then?

 

OJK: What sort of benefits does a widow or the wife of a martyred or injured soldier get?

SM: They receive benefits for the children. However, sometimes they may be part of a large family, and in Armenia, the family is very strong. Even if that is changing now, the whole family lives together and they help each other. However, when I spoke to one injured soldier he simply asked, “Seta, did I have to die so that my children won’t be hungry today?”

One thing that we did start to do however was not to just hand out aid. We undertake much of our work through events such as baptisms and Easter so that people can receive presents instead of begging. All of the children receive something, and as a result, they feel equal. On the other hand, the general social issues are so devastating that sometimes I do not know what to do.

A few weeks ago I had a fight with a friend of mine – he is an artist, and starving. He said, “I’m going”. I’m like “Where are you going?” He said “Europe,” and I asked, “What will you do there?” He said he would sell some art crafts, but I said “where? On the streets?” He simply responded, “I don’t care.” Sometimes its better to stay, but often they do not think. If you have friends abroad, or something to do then I can understand it, but he has not any of that.

However, if the situation remains as it is, I will be fighting with all kinds of friends because everyone is thinking of leaving now. Sometimes it is difficult to realize that we cannot offer any solutions. The Fund is a very small organization, and while we can give people temporary solutions, we are not able to solve their long-term problems, which is very upsetting.

 

OJK: I would like to talk a little more positively about the possible solutions later, but it has been strange to be here for 14 months. For the first month I would go where I knew, and end up in the bar at the Hotel Armenia. I would discover the waiter had been in Karabagh, and it would appear that society has been turned upside down. Those who were part of the defining factor in the establishment of an independent Armenia – the Karabagh Movement – have been completely relegated to a position where they are totally forgotten. I do not just mean those that went and fought and died, but the families that remain. What happened?

SM: That is another problematic issue. I had a big problem when people went to Karabagh and stayed a week or two and then returned to Yerevan and wore their uniforms in the streets. It was sick. It was a very emotional thing for Yerevantsis because there was a tendency to be “a hero.” If you went just once to Nagorno Karabagh, Yerevantsi did not know who was really who. In many cases, those that really fought or did significant work there did not talk, or they were not the type to wear their uniforms in the streets. Now it is very hard to really identify who really did something and among those that did, who was able to loot in the war, and who were not the type to do such things. It is very sad for me to see with my own eyes that the people who had been very brave are not the ones that are talking about it. Of course, there are people who really did great jobs and they are in a good situation now, but there are some who are simply ignored. Unfortunately, most of the great soldiers on the front line were killed.

 

OJK: This is another paradox. How do you identify the areas to work in? It is also very difficult to understand that people are living in very bad conditions when you see the number of Mercedes on the roads, the number of casinos and the amount of strip bars.

SM: Concerning the Mercedes and all of that, I find it disgusting, but that is also a very problematic issue. I remember when people would gossip about government ministers and their expensive cars and suits. However, I thought that maybe some very rich Diaspora Armenians are giving these people these things, so that it does not come from the state budget. On the other hand, this country, and the whole region, is based on ‘connections,’ and when people start to make those connections, they are not willing to stop. Some may be making their money in “clean” ways but there is no way that everybody is.

We have a very big problem with the state budget, and I wonder how many of these very rich businessmen are paying their taxes. If they believe in their country the first thing they should be doing is paying their taxes, and not making connections with Ministers and whoever else to do anything NOT to fulfill their obligation to society. A patriotic person will pay their taxes first, but that creates a whole chain because people then say that they will not pay tax because they believe it is going straight into the pocket of a government official. There is no way to control this or to monitor it, and people are not prepared to make the sacrifice. However, that is not entirely their fault. This culture accepts it, and I am not sure if the people that are complaining would do otherwise if given the opportunity. If they were part of the government or had the right connections, I am sure that many would also exploit the situation. It comes from all sides.

It is not a matter of survival, which is what makes me sad. It is simply hoarding, and I know that it must be tempting not to exploit position and connections. However, people must realize that they have to live with their conscience. God will judge me one day, and I want to live my life so that I will be proud of it, and so that I can hold my head up. Unfortunately, most people do not think that way now that they have the opportunity to take. I think they are selfish, although I can understand that these people might also be confused. During these difficult times, having money and power is a big challenge, but once these people realize that they money, they also realize that they can go to a casino and play poker, winning or losing thousands of dollars repeatedly. The miniature of this situation is the lotto. Have you noticed how many people are playing lotto in this country?

I have met people who have become addicted to lotto, even if they do not have enough money for bread. They spend what little they have on the lotto instead, in the hope that they will win, especially now that the people who have won are shown on television. They can forge some of it, but they cannot forge all of it. These people are buying lotto and its crazy. They were not educated that this is a bad thing, but they are completely addicted. People go and play bingo until two or three in the morning.

 

OJK: It is not just that people are poor, it has also changed the way society is. However, going back to the mentally and physically disabled, I get the impression that these people remain hidden in Armenian society. People do not want to see them, but what happens to them?

SM: First of all, if a child is born with some kind of disability its insulting for the parents. They feel ashamed that they were not able to deliver a normal child. I have known one family but never knew that they had a kid. One day however, by accident I saw the child for the first time. This was a nice family in a normal financial situation, but they kept their kid in the house because they were ashamed.

In some cases, others give the child to the orphanage. They do not even visit. There is one story where a child was born with a hair-lip and his parents did not want him. The disabled are always kept outside of society, and it is sad that people cannot accept that handicapped children are normal people too. You almost never see people in wheelchairs on the streets. They are not treated as normal people and they are kept outside of normal life. They do not play with other children, and they are isolated.

Even the disabled soldiers are kept at home, although they are remembered from time to time. However, you do not see them in everyday life, which is sad. We discovered one family by accident when an old woman asked if we could help with her grandchildren and so we took telephone numbers and later visited to check on her situation. They were miserable – five kids, and the father has a spinal chord injury from the war. He cannot move. They had one chair, but they offered that to our members who visited. This guy did not steal anything – he was injured during the war, and we accidentally met the grandmother, but who knows about this guy? I am sure he has not left his house.

 

OJK: Can society change? Can education change anything?

SM: Of course we would like to think that it can, but the whole atmosphere needs to change. Not only through education, but also in the way people treat each other so that the entire society changes. One of the sad things that I have seen is how people treat the soldiers. The new generation were not directly affected by the war, but even old people have said things that are very sad for me to hear. “Who told you to go? If you’re in trouble now, that’s your fault.”

Everyone knows that I’m Miss Melkonian, right? In one incident, I needed help from Yerevan State – and this is from the Head of Yerevan State – “doesn’t the University have anything better to do now than deal with martyred soldier’s wives?” That was his answer, and we did not ask much from him. It had to do with a telephone at the dormitory. All I was asking was could I use that telephone or not. I know that a lot of women who are in much more desperate situations with families are not able to understand that people are different. They are getting hurt and I do not blame them for the fact that when they see the Mercedes and Jeeps they think, “Is this why we lost our husbands or brothers or fathers? Is that why they sacrificed their lives?”

I am hoping that the whole generation will change, because the younger generation cannot remember Soviet Armenia, and priorities are changing. We will not have the Armenia that we had, and I am not sure we will have the level of education that we had during the soviet years. The standard of education today is sadly very low, and when you walk on the street, you are even surprised at the Armenian most youngsters speak. The quality is shameful, and it is a disgrace when we see this on TV as well, even from journalists. A change is taking place, priorities are different, and I do not know what those changes will bring for the next generation.

 

OJK: If you consider what Karabagh was meant to represent, Armenian culture is at a very low level today. When I turn on television I see American films dubbed into Russian – porno, horror movies – and its not just that culture is at a low level, it is that the intelligence of those in charge of the private television stations is also at a very low level.

SM: They say that they do not have money, and it makes me sad because sometimes you do not need money. All it takes is a will, and the desire to do something. They do not understand, and as soon as you ask for an interesting program, they say that they do not have funding.

One of the other problems that these people have I guess, is that there is a lot of denial. There is a denial of the problems that could be solved if we faced them. I know there was a big problem with going to the army and paying the bribes, but someone was paying them, right? In life, you have to sacrifice something so that you can reach a higher point, but nobody is ready to make that sacrifice. Maybe if one person made a sacrifice, ten others would too, so that the eleventh would not have to.

I spoke about this a lot during the sad times when young men were being taken off the streets to the army, and everybody blamed Vazgen Sarkisyan. I’m not saying that the army is a good place, or that people are not corrupt in the Defense Ministry – I have heard a lot of things about that, but hiding your children under your skirts dear mothers, is not the solution. If you are interested in stopping the situation, do something about it. If you are interested in solving this, do something about it. It is your right to demand the change, but no one will do it. No one is prepared to make the sacrifice.

Prostitution is the same. No one is facing the fact that these are 16-year-old girls, and that Baghramian (Street) is full of prostitutes. Before we would recognize them – with bleached hair and lots of makeup, but now they are normal girls. When you ask them why, they say “You know what, I see girls in the movies wear nice clothes, my neighbors wear nice clothes, and we want to wear nice clothes too. We do not mind going with guys so that we can buy jewelry, clothing and all kinds of nice stuff. We do not mind.” Again, the sad part is that the parents know. There is no way they do not know. You cannot hide certain things but they just put their heads in the sand and pretend not to see the problem. There will never be solutions until you face those problems.

The only solution that I can see is to create jobs. I can open a store full of handmade artifacts for any Armenian from the Diaspora. I can fill it with Armenian paintings, ceramics, and jewelry, and I can sell it. I can gather artists that will be so happy to do something and receive a salary. That is the only way the Diaspora or anybody else can help this country. Many people are willing to work, and there are artists and singers who tell me that they are even willing to sweep the floor.

I know one eighty-year-old woman who cannot survive on her pension, but do you know what she is doing? She is painting pictures of churches and sceneries because she wants to make money with her own work. She is not selling it for a hundred; she is selling it for one dollar. Every time I need to buy a present or card, I buy it from her and at least I know she will have some income. I do not buy the cards with “Happy Birthday” written in English that everyone else is buying. Even if there is a souvenir store in Armenia, it is still very expensive.

 

OJK: The one on Abovian?

SM: Yes, but the problem is that a few people have the means to open a store, and put the prices up for all the foreigners and the tourists. If people like you, my friends or myself – the middle classes, for example – can’t afford to buy $50 presents for everybody, there is no place to buy anything else that is decent.

 

OJK: It is the same throughout Armenia. Rich or poor, but no in-between. You mention self-sustainable jobs, but presumably, self-sustainable tourism could be part of this too. There are no options however. Although I would advise everyone to travel to the regions of Armenia, when tourists come to Yerevan what options do they have? Hotel Armenia, Hotel Ani, or Hotel Dvin, but if you travel to Turkey or Greece you have a variety of choices. People need to produce something that can cater for a sustainable market. I do not understand the mentality.

SM: And they want at least 100% profit. It does not work that way. In the world, it does not work that way. Even in Vernisage, as soon as they realize you are a foreigner the prices are either too high or you cannot find anything decent. You cannot find Armenian items because they are sold in few shops with a 1000% markup or they do not exist, or you have to find the telephone number of an artist and ring them at home.

 

OJK: You and Monte were trying to set up a carpet factory in Karabagh, but it never happened?

SM: No it never happened. It was too expensive. Some women from the carpet factory came to see me to ask for help in opening up the carpet factory again, and Monte was very excited because it could be economically beneficial for the population and they would stay and not leave. I looked at, but it was expensive and it was a very large project. I could not do it, and nor could the fund.

 

OJK: These sort of projects are much more feasible, and for the normal people. Self sustainable agriculture, textiles, all the things that Armenians are best at, and which has a market among foreigners that come here, and abroad. Do you think they are realistic?

SM: Yes. I do not know what people are thinking, and sometimes perhaps they do not think at all. It should be easy to do, but no one does it. I remember in Cyprus, there was a little shop that sold herbs, which were labeled. You would know what this herb was good for – your kidneys, your stomach, your heart, the so-called organic and pure remedies. The whole world is looking to organic herbs and all over Armenia, you can find these herbs. Little things that do not need a large amount of capital to start, and that can provide some work. It is the same as the ceramic stuff. This is from Uruguay [shows vase on table], handmade and this was a project started for vulnerable families — people living in poverty. Why can’t we do it? No, we just think they can do something and sell it for a hundred dollars.

It just needs someone who is able to work in this society, or someone to take care of the legal side, the taxation. I know there are many problems with the mafia but I do not think people will have that much trouble if they are a small business. Little things are possible.

 

OJK: From my own personal point of view, most in the Diaspora know very little about the real life of those living in Yerevan, in the villages, or in the other cities of Armenia. I do not understand why the Diaspora seems more content staying in a hotel and traveling in and around Yerevan when there are so many places far more beautiful. I have not even been to Goris or Meghri yet, but when I come back from a short break in England, I want to spend a week or two there. These are the positive things about Armenia, and this is where the hope lies in this country.

SM: You know what? The best thing that Armenia has is the people. Unfortunately, not all of them of course, but you never have that in any country. However, there is a percentage that is willing to help each other, and who are pure, even if that means struggling very hard to remain honest and not to have to sacrifice themselves to the situation they are living in. I always try to find what is positive, but even I see very little that is optimistic for the future.

Of course, after a war and the collapse of an entire political system what else can you expect, but the thing is that they did not know what would happen. No one prepared them for it. However, there are good people here. Even if we have heard a lot about the thieves and the corruption, there are people who need support, and the opportunity to do something constructive.

Not everything has gone yet, but if it continues like this I do not know what will happen because people are changing, and the priorities for the new generation are already different. There is the spirit and there is the country. We can make it better, or we can make it worse, but at least we know that there is potential to help people go in the right direction because I know many people who have not sold their souls yet.

Another problem that we did not mention is that the sects are a big problem. Many people deny it or just accept it. There are many sects in Armenia but why are people going to the sects? Some of the sects present themselves so well, and people need that warmth and support. When they know that a group of people are praying for them they feel good. In my opinion most of the blame for the appearance of the sects lies with the Armenian Church. What kind of priests are they? They do not even have respect. Priests taking bribes, priests not going to the cemetery because there is more money in the weddings, or they do not do this, or they do not bless this house.

The one point about the sects that I want to mention is that there is the warmth and the emotional side that people need. People need each other’s support, which is a nice thing. That means the feelings and the emotions are not dead in them. They are not selling everything. They want someone close to them and they want to help each other. From what I have seen from some sects, members are ready to go to the houses of sick people, of poor people just to talk to them — to spend some time with them and to make them feel human, and not lonely.

Many families are being destroyed because of the social and economic situation, and everybody needs some warmth to support them. Who doesn’t? Everybody needs that, right, and the Armenian Church cannot fill that need. I do not agree with the sects, but everyone has the right to believe in what they want to. However, while everybody that is involved with the sects just see the positive side, the damage will be felt later.

 

OJK: Do you think that the situation will change with the election of a new Catholicos?

SM: Well, I hope they will start, but what they do instead is to go to the other extreme, which makes those going to the sects even more attached. It was very sad for me to discover that one of my friends is involved with a sect, but it is his choice, and I am not going to judge him. He said that he feels better, he does not smoke any more, he does not do this, and he does not do that. He says he feels good around those people full stop, and I thought, if he is not hurting anyone around him, and if he is feeling good and this is helping him, what can I do?

I know he is not stupid and in time, he will realize what the sect is about, but if I start bad mouthing the sect what do I have to offer instead? Nothing. Nothing but an argument. A debate, but nothing else. I cannot offer him somewhere else where he can go once a week and feel good, and I am not going to yell at him because until he understands he will never leave. It is everybody’s personal issue and it is for them to decide.

People have lost something that they once had, and they are trying to find something that makes them feel good. There is a lot of injustice around them, they feel trapped, and many have lost the enthusiasm for independence. It was a big ideal but now they realize what the reality is. After believing in something for so many years, it is a huge insult.

 

OJK: The dream of independence was not just something that Armenians here had; it was also something that Armenians in the Diaspora had too. However, if you believed in independence, but if it is not quite what you expected in reality, then fix it. The sects came to give something, so why can’t the Diaspora do the same?

SM: Not everybody here wanted independence. They had no other choice, and so for some people it is a false situation that they can do nothing about. I think that the number of those that wanted independence is actually lower than the Diaspora realizes. It is also difficult for them to imagine that this was the dream.

All of my life I had dreamt of Armenia, and when I was nine years old, people would ask me what I would do when I grew up. I said that I wanted to be a singer like Gohar Kasparian, and that I would go to Armenia to learn how to sing. When I grew up a little bit, I would say that Armenia would be the first country that I would visit. It was. It came true.

Millions of Armenians outside of the republic said the same, but when it became independent how many people came? Some came to exploit Armenia – to use Armenia, and they knew that if they came they could make connections and get jobs. They became government officials without any education. I know people like that. They knew that they would not be anyone in the country where they were born, but they could become big people here. Of course, some came here to live with the locals, and some came because they felt they had a mission, but who knows about them? What percentage are these people? It is very sad.

What independence? The Diaspora has to face a reality. Even if we had Western Armenia, how many people would come? Maybe they would come from Syria, Iran, Georgia and Lebanon, but would the others? Would they quit their comfortable lives? Of course not, and that is why I just want to think of myself as a human being now. I have lost faith.

I love to help Armenian children, but I would also like to help Azeri children too, or the wives of Azeri soldiers that might even have been killed by my husband. My husband and their husband had to do something in a very dirty situation, and one thing that I loved about Monte was that he believed that you fight with a soldier when he has a gun. He punished an Armenian who beat up an injured Azeri soldier. This Armenian could not understand. He said that Azeris killed his nephew, but Monte said why could you beat an unarmed Azeri prisoner when you could not take up a gun and fight against armed Azeri soldiers in the trenches. You cannot be a bad human being and a good Armenian too. If you are a good human being, you should help anyone.

 

OJK: Perhaps we are just misunderstanding different interpretations of Armenia. What we need to do is realistically reevaluate where Armenia is as a nation, and where Armenians are as a people in the context of the fact that there is a far bigger world out there. I remember seeing some Azeri POWs and families held hostage in Stepanakert, and the Armenian children were playing quite happily with the Azerbaijani children. It is difficult to speak about such things even now, and you cannot even talk about Khodjali. However, an Armenian mother might say that my village was destroyed and my family killed by the Azeris, and an Azeri woman the same about her village being destroyed by Armenians. It just perpetuates.

SM: I liked to visit Azerbaijani hostages, and I remember that after Monte was killed, my brother-in-law and I went to see a prisoner captured from that battle. He was eighteen years old and he was so scared of us because he thought we would hurt him, but we spoke to him. He told us how the rich escaped from the army. The same in Armenia. Even when they say that Monte was killed by Armenians I just think, what difference does it make? Evil is evil. It is war, it happens, and when I married Monte, I knew that it might happen.

I think that the biggest thing to do now is to create a solution. People still need shoes, but not like they did in the past. They need solutions. The main thing you will hear is “we need jobs.” I have heard this a million times. The road from Lachin to Stepanakert made a great difference, but what is the next step?